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Wow.
I had a lot of fun. At least on the second map when I got out of that heavy and into a scout. I don't like the lack of mobility of that suit. The only time I ever fear a heavy is if I'm inside, and even then rarely. I see their usefulness while base smashing however. There was no real defense against that other than to kill them as quickly as possible (no small task when shield packed) before they took out every single turret and inv station. I look forward to the next practice.
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Well, to be honest, I'm pretty much a n00b when it comes to this T2 practice field commanding... I think things went pretty well, but I know that NR was missed. Having had real life interfere for the last 3 practices, I wasn't even really sure how NR had been running them, so apologies if my style was a bit different from his.
For all those not in attendance, we played 45 minutes of Dessicator followed by 45 minutes of Quagmire. On Dessicator, we ran squads with offense and defense, pretending that the FF generators weren't actually there since we didn't have enough people show up to play gen defense / base rapers. We played the first half with the ff gens up so that the cappers would have to practice flag grabs in that most unenviable of situations. Then we took the gens down and let the defenders practice defending their flag in THAT most unenviable of situations. All-in-all, I think it went well.
On Quagmire (one of my favorite maps) we played a more traditional O vs. D. I was on offense, so I can't really comment on what the defenders might have gleaned from this, but I think we came up with a fairly effective strategy on offense. Basically, the offense was divided into 2 squads. The first squad consisted of 2 HO's and 1 LO and was primarily concerned with exterior defenses. The LO had the responsibility of putting up beacons on the point turrets and taking out as many land spikes as possible before getting smacked. The he was supposed to suit back up in LO to act as a capper escort. The HO's took out the point turrets, and killed as much of the exterior defenses as possible, calling clear for the second squad, primarily interested in taking out interior flag defenses. This squad consisted of 1HO and 2 LO/cappers. When the interior defense was shot, the lights grab the flag, now with at least 2 light escorts. I set a time limit on the offense of 5 minutes to complete that entire procedure. If we were unable to make the cap happen in that time, we reset and started over... The last run that I was there, that seems to work great. We were able to do the whole thing from launch to cap inside of 3 minutes.
Quagmire is an HO's dream. However, that flag can be pretty easy to defend, given the right resources and number of people. We didn't touch much on generator / inv station defenses since we were a bit low on people. Otherwise, I think things went QUITE well. Your comments and thoughts are appreciated.
[AK]Zorro
Chief Operations Officer
<a href="http://www.augustknights.com" target="_blank">AugustKnights.com</a> WizOp
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Ah, but I for one take special joy in hammering a heavy in the open field. I've only seen a few Heavies that can beat me... NR is one of them... My heavy fetish is only slightly usurped by the ephoria of taking out pesky snipers... especially offensive one... I hate snipers...
[AK]Zorro
Chief Operations Officer
<a href="http://www.augustknights.com" target="_blank">AugustKnights.com</a> WizOp
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I thought practice went well, and you did a fine job, Zorro.
I was able to get my first taste of HO in a team setting (other than the vehicle drops on Sanctuary.)
I thought our defense did pretty good on Dessicator, other than the one time where I got pulled away by an opponent and wasn't able to clear the mines for our incoming flag carrier (who subsequently got smoked... 'doh!)
It should be stated (although this is obvious) that defending the gens on that map is about 90percent of the battle.
[This message has been edited by [AK]Squidly (edited 05-31-2001).]
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Personally... it was a crappy practice for me. My timing seemed off on everything, and when Zorro sent me HO, which I was ok with at first, it went downhill for me from there. Even with a shield pack, I had swarms of lights all over me just as soon as I came in range of the turret on Quagmire. While this is good by drawing some defenders away from the flag, I didnt feel I was much of a threat to them, as they all took me out with ease. (well done btw guys) The rest of the O team seemed to cope pretty well, but I was struggling. Zorro, I thought you did a fine job running practice. Thx man!
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In an open field battle the scout is going to win 9 times outta 10 unless the player skill range is completely off the scale. If you factor in varying terain however the scales can turn rapidly. a heavy on the top of a steep slope the scouts must navigate up is going to cream them, but in the rolling hills of quagmire the lack of mobility is going to make you feel like a cow trying to kill flies with your tail. It wasn't just you solarwolf, all the heavies got taken out once they had attention directed at them, but with 4 defenders taking on 3 or 4 heavies, the time delay between engagement and destruction is plenty of time to cause significant havoc. with an 8 person D versus and 8 person O, that battle wouldn't have played out like that. Battles unfortunately don't scale. We didn't have the numbers to defend the peremeter. There's no way any real team would let you setup that offensive strike in the first place. Quagmire is won in the midfield. (just as Diss is won at the field gens) The hardest thing to defense against from your attack with diversion. You can't ignore the 2 heavies coming at you, but that opens up a big gap for that skilled scout to swoop in and out before much can be done about it.
For what that practice was that was an excellent strat, but I have my doubts as to its effectiveness in a 16 on 16 match. Your teamwork was excellent. The D never really pulled together much. It's possible we should have had 2 people positioned out from the base, but there was no way to do sensor placement with the amount of people we had. You only gave us 3 minutes to replace turrets, inv and sensors around the base itself let alone an effective sensor network.
Just my observations. I am by no means declairing myself an expert.
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Dessicator and Quagmire both have visibility problems (in fact I have been noticing a lack of visibility on MANY maps, did they increase the fog or something). We realy need to get a sensor net set up so we can see the enemy. Pulse sensors are pretty easy to see an knock out so they would have to be replaces frequently, if cameras were any use (which I am now skeptical about) we could lay those little things around. Just my little observation.
Flying in Dessicator is nerve racking since there is so much fog you can't see more than 30 feet in front of you it seems.
[AK]Widowmaker
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"The only time I ever fear a heavy is if I'm inside"
I see alot of this in T2, I'm in a heavy almost all the time when I play Tribes, and this kinda additude will get you killed if you are fighting a heavy who knows what they are doing. Ask NR he will tell you about light vs. heavy duels http://www.augustknights.com/ubb/wink.gif
The total lack of respect for the heavy in the field is mind boggeling, I have killed dozens of light armors with because they think a chaingun is the anwser to a heavy.
I just think its the wrong additude...
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Member of GanG Green
[GanG]Drewski
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To answer Wid's question about the fog: Yes, they turned up the fog substantially on several maps in the big patch a week or two ago. They're trying to ease the poly count for slower computers.
I only caught the later part of the Quagmire map, but here are my observations as a defender:
The HO looked effective from the defensive end. The most effective heavies were those who knew the map well enough to get up high and slide into the flag area without using any jetpack. It was especially effective when the heavies came in groups.
The O had a big advantage last night. It wasn't encountering the other side's offense. This is what will generally ruin the sneak-up-and-slide attacks our O was using last night. The other side's outbound light attackers will bump into and kill those heavies before they ever get to visual range with the flag area.
The D was not doing well, as Solar noted. I wasn't doing well at all, because I spent last weekend playing Black & White. Still, I got to practice my ELFing, and it seemed effective. Any attackers care to comment on the defenders using the ELF?
The big problem with the D was that nobody was deploying. Partly this was because the group was a little too small. I would have done it, but I accidentally left my voice command software on B&W mode instead of T2 mode, so I was superslow doing any inventory selection. On a 16 man team, I would have two guys full time devoted to defensive hardware. Those spikes go down quick, and the sensor net - both motion and pulse - is important for both the spikes and the defenders. The defense was especially slow on bringing out inventory stations to the flag area. There's no safe place to put those things, so the deployer needs to expect to be bringing them out constantly.
I did stumble on a three mine approach to defending the flag building that irritated an attacker or two.
My suggestion for the offense is to consider long range mortar fire. The bases on that map are only slightly out of mortar range from each other. A serious HO could find a high spot a little forward and practice blind-firing mortars into the flag area, to hurt spikes and wound defenders. Maybe a cloaked attacker could plant a beacon right behind the enemy flag building, and the heavies could shoot a little short of that marker. There are several T2 maps where a HO with lots of time to practice could benefit from learning to stand on friendly point A and hit enemy point B with the mortar. Of course, the HO has to coordinate with the LO on this, or they'll TK the guys they were trying to clear a path for.
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My only only comment on the D for that night was that you guys did a good job defending against me... at the very least. Considering the circumstances(that Leo stated above), I thought you guys did really well. Some good tactics are listed there as well, I'll definatly give them a try next time Im in that situation.
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Thanks Z... Love you too buddy http://www.augustknights.com/ubb/smile.gif Why don't snipers get any love? j/k... I don't even snipe anymore. I think I'm gonna try to drop in on a practice soon, see if my skills are still up to par... siege doesn't tell me too much because no one on the servers knows how to play. Well maybe I'll see you guys on, I keep checking AKs servers...
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Yeah, it's me Donkeyballs... new name, same game :-P
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One strategy I'd like to see tested is the "cloud of cappers" technique. Have everyone on O equipped to make a run, and have them all hit the flag simultaneously.
Whoever ends up getting the flag can flee while the rest perform escorting duties or work on taking out spike turrets until they're smoked. If you want to get fancy, one or two can wear jammer packs to help
with the turrets.
I learned from my paintball playing days that striking fast in overwhelming numbers is very effective. They just don't have enough bullets to take you all down fast enough. If the enemy tries to engage midfield, ignore them and press to the flag.
[This message has been edited by [AK]Squidly (edited 06-01-2001).]
[This message has been edited by [AK]Squidly (edited 06-01-2001).]
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I like that approach, Squidly. I think the devs specifically wanted to get attackers to gain benefits from attacking in groups. That's why they made the mortar weaker against lights (slower to detonate, smaller radius), and gave the jammer the radius feature. Even a group of three can glide through a seemingly unbreakable turret farm.
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Well even the best turret farm can only fire so fast and at so many different targets. 5-6 cappers going in at once, ignoring everything but the flag seems like it could be effective.
On a map like Sanctuary, you could have 2 shrikes standing by at an agreed to rally point for the successful capper to head to.
Maybe right behind the sensor on the hill for instance.
It may very well turn out that they cycle of sending heavies over to destroy their gens is a waste of time. Let their interior defenders sit there twiddling their thumbs while you put the resources towards overwhelming their exterior defense.
Worth testing, anyway...
[This message has been edited by [AK]Squidly (edited 06-03-2001).]
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The part of the attack force that takes down the gens is really on defense. If we take down their gens and invs, then their attackers have to sit and wait during repairs, which gives our defense more time to prepare. An undisciplined offense will lose cohesion and resort to a pub-style offense when the vehicle pad isn't working. Taking down the gen irritates the enemy's defense only a little, because defensive mediums and heavies generally survive an attack, so they can heal at remote invs. And defending lights can of course always use the remote invs.
On this analysis, there are four parts to the team. Defense consists of the guys guarding the flag and the guys trying to slow down the attackers by hitting the gens and invs. Offense consists of the guys going after the flag and the guys keeping the attacking moving by protecting the gens and invs.
The roles overlap on many maps, but it's helpful to keep them clear. For example, if we're in a lockup (each side has the other's flag), and we're ahead so we don't mind the lockup continuing, then we should pull back most or all of our cappers and use them on direct defense. But we should keep our gen destroyers on the job in that situation, as they are really on defense because they are trying to slow down the enemy's offense.