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Most people vote with their heart. Emotions make up a big part of our system. Who is a better speaker? Better looking? More honest sounding?
Biden is just sour and dour. He doesn't look at the camera. He looks at the biased moderator of just off of center. Palin looks up and comes across with more charisma. Plus, i'd much rather see her in a swimsuit than Biden.
Though sometimes she does seem like she's a bit out of her league.
In balance, Palin comes across pretty preachy.
As she continued to reference her energy record....I conceded defeat to my bleeding heart liberal wife.
That said, 30 minutes into it she stole the show.
I was very pleasantly surprised that she can speak as well as she looks in pumps:liplick:
She was weak on foreign policy, and very strong everywhere else. With time, she'll be strong across the board. This is a sharp lady.
If McCain loses this election, this won't be the last we see of her, I'll wager.
I'd love to see her at the top of the ticket with HER ideas and not McCain's driving her answers. She's forced to deliver his talking points and defending his years in the Senate - and that's a tough chore.
i must say, this is my hangup with our current election.
We focus on the voting records of the senators in the spotlight. Bush is the Antichrist, yet nobody has mentioned how the Pelosi/Reid Congress has failed the American populace. Let's place blame where it's deserved. i don't believe Bush was a Roosevelt (Theodore, of course) but the US Congress has failed the American people, and the sheep are blaming Bush. This burden is then passed to the republican party's candidate. Nobody has the balls to mention that the Republicans left McCain for dead, penniless, and way behind the democrat's campaign curve.
You may not like McCain for whatever reason, but I admire a street fighter that always stands up.
It's a touch task to debate Biden - a seasoned politician and great debater - but I think she did an admirable job. I kept waiting for that one train-wreck moment but it never came.
All she had to do was look competent and no screw up to win and she did that handily.
I though Biden was good though - if not a bit preachy. I think he fell into the trap of talking too much about Joe Biden at times and not enough about Obama. Some of the stuff he stated was just bald faced lies especially the stuff about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and affixing blame.
All in all I thought it was a good debate. I think it probably helped the McCain camp more than it helped the Obama camp but probably not by much.
Early "national" polls of "people watching the debate" marked Biden as the winner... Personally I don't see how, all he had was bold-faced lies and rhetoric. The current drudge poll has 310,000 votes, and gives Palin the win at 70%.
Poll results depend on who ran the poll, usually.
Particularly online. Most Republicans aren't filling out a Daily Kos poll.
It's frustrating, because she's being forced to recite the platform of John McCain, a marginal Republican at best. If she was out there running her own show, I think we'd see a much different display with far better results. Americans respond well to a non-Washingtonian, and real conservative principles delivered believably spell win.
Palin is a character right out of the movie Fargo. She's only as smart as she is informed prior to events. She can't name a single news source that she get's her information from, and I simply cannot put faith into her at this point. I see her as a figurehead. And we have had enough of those in the white house.
(Yes Palooka, I posted in the Politica del Giorno area. Aren't I a big boy now, LOL)
Making fun of her accent is weak-sauce, first off.
Second, she's been a business owner, mayor, governor, while raising a family of 5. She's fought and won against big-business corruption in Alaska, while nearly everyone was against her. She didn't have people feeding her answers.
She's plenty smart. You're selling her short and drinking the coolaid.
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Don't put too much into the VP debate. In reality, the VP attends state funerals, meets with foreign Prime Ministers and attends to pet projects. They really don't do a hell of a lot besides break ties in the Senate.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]StitchJones
Pay more attention to McCain and Obama, what they stand for, their character, their past associations, their vision and what they are likely to do and not do if elected.
I've come to the conclusion that both candidates are flawed but my beliefs are more aligned with McCain than Obama. That's why I'm voting McCain.
It's spelled Kool-AidQuote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool-Aid
None of those accomplishments mean she's fit to be a VP. I'm simply not moved or convinced by her. Weaksause or not your taking a quick gut shot at me to knock me out of further conversation on this topic. No need to worry or make a fuss, I found this topic post worthy to put my view into. Broad or Narrow minded, that's my view.
:beer:
If she's not fit to be a VP with her experiences and accomplishments - please list and explain to me how Obama is fit to be PRESIDENT with his.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]StitchJones
I have to agree with Stitch here. I just don't see why everyone is so impressed with her. Sure, she's a governer, but so are 49 other people. Sure, she's a smart, successful women, but so are a lot of other women that I wouldn't want in politics. Everytime I see her answer questions I get the feeling that she is just reciting material that she has been studying (and not all that well, either). Maybe she's not 100% in agreement with McCain - then she needs to either speak her own opinion or learn to lie better, because she comes off to me as insincere and out of her league most of the time.
I can't decide if she's a crafty politician who is acting "folky" or if she's genuinely like that in real life. Either way I don't think she has a good grasp of large political concepts, even though she didn't have a major disaster moment last night.
I don't dislike Palin, but nor do I see why anyone would be 'excited' for her to be on the Republican ticket.
I 100% agree with every word Swae just said. Took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm not sure how anyone could take her for anything but genuinely "folky."Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Swae
As far as her "major disaster" ..... Thats exactly what the mainstream media and 99% of the bleeding heart liberals were tuned in to see last night. Guess what? It didn't happen. She started out a bit slow but I think made up for it in the end. I must admit I was a bit concerned for her to be standing beside a very "seasoned" politician like Biden. I figured he was gonna tear a whole in her ass before the night was over, again.... It never happened.
Am I falling in the floor excited about McCain or Palin?? Not really. But look at the alternative. We can bash these 4 until the election but the fact is when you walk into the voting booth on the 4th your going to vote for the candidate that best suites YOUR views and beliefs, and like Bribo said I'll be pushing the button for McCain.
She's got more job experience than the top of the Democratic ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Swae
Why are you so impressed with Obama? There are dozens of Senators better qualified. I'm serious, lets hear it.
Don't try to turn this around - you're the one that took issue with her accent.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]StitchJones
You may find it personally important, but it's frivolous.
Regarding her experience - FDR, Carter, Clinton, and Reagan were also Governors. And they were running for President. Clearly you're adjusting the "requirements" of the Vice Presidency because you simply don't like Republicans.
I never said I was that impressed with Obama. In fact, I haven't mentioned him at all. I was speaking only to Palin and my opinion on her as a VP candidate and politician in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly
See the thing is, the large majority of you folks in this discussion WANT to like her. You have kept you fingers crossed hoping that she would pull through and succeed and help the McCain ticket. I am pretty much party-neutral, despite what rumors my husband has spread about me. I don't vote party and never have, I'm more concerned with individuals and issues. If you asked me right now who I was voting for I honestly couldn't tell you.
I watched the debate from as much of a neutral perspective as I think was possible. I see lots of conservatives fawning over Palin and I just don't see it. I would say the same thing if there was a huge outcry of how great Biden was, because I don't think he was that spectacular last night either (it was my first chance to form any sort of opinion about him, and I was underwhelmed).
I'm not bashing Palin, I just think that from my perspective of not being for either party, I don't see why everyone is so impressed.
I didn't want to like her, I researched her after she was picked and decided that I genuinely liked her.
As for Biden, I won't ever bring myself to like a thief(plagiarist).
Lets not mince words here...you voted for him in our mini-poll. Am I wrong in saying that you'll vote for him in November?Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Swae
I'm not sure how to respond to that. It's couched in generalities, so I can't really take it personally, but I do think you need to be careful with statements of that type. If I said "you WANT to like Obama and Biden", well I'm sure you'd object. It sounds as though you think we can't or won't make mature decisions. It's insulting.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Swae
Lots of Liberals fawn over Obama. I just don't see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Swae
I'll take you at your word. He was wrong about the role of VP in the Senate. Wrong about the constitution in that regard. He lied about his often stated position on clean coal in the US. He was factually wrong about Hezbollah, wrong about Hamas winning an election, wrong about the missiles in Pakistan and their "ability" to reach Israel (they can't), he shifted positions on meeting with leaders of terrorist states, and misplaced blame on the root cause of the financial failure of the last 2 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Swae
Hell, the restaurant he cited as a place he talked to common citizens about the hard times they're living through has been out of business for over 15 years.
I'm in the position of having to vote for McCain because he's the best of a bad lot. I want to keep MY change and my guns, so Obama is not an option. I still remember the "death of a thousand cuts" gun owners faced with a multitude of bad legislation and executive orders during Clinton's rule, and will never vote for a Democrat again as a result. Too many of those gun control votes went straight down the party line, and I saw that in a pinch, there are no real "conservative" Democrats.
I don't care for McCain's record all that much, but I respect him as a person. I cannot say the same for Obama, who befriends folks I'd rather see deported to idyllic Africa (Rev. Wright) or still jailed for terrorism (William Ayers).
It's sad to see that Obama, whose career was launched by a convicted terrorist (Ayers) is this close to winning the presidency.
I'm very enthused about Palin. I like her as a person; I like her story. I would like to see her as a VP. I love the frothing at the mouth reaction she inspires in all the liberals at my office. They have a visceral reaction to her that I find quite amusing.
As Squidly pointed out, she has more executive experience than the TOP of the Democratic ticket at this point. She's actually been in charge of something, not just an attorney or "community organizer" -- basically a buzzword for socialist bagman/political agitator.
Bah, I don't think I can get across what I mean. You are probably right that I was generalizing unfairly....what I meant was that I have seen those who traditionally lean to the left be overly critical of Palin, and those on the right be more forgiving of her missteps.
There are things that I like and dislike about Palin, and about all of them to be honest. I have some views which are very liberal, and some which are very conservative. And yes, I did vote for Obama in the mini-poll. At that point, it was how I was leaning. I don't know who I will vote for come November, because honestly I'm not overwhelmed by either side.
I hate both of their health-care policies and am not sure whose is less bad. On social issues I tend to be liberal - I am pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro stem cell research, pro environment [thought not so much on the global warming fad] and <gasp> shall I say it? pro-gun control. I am also strongly anti "creationism" or "intelligent design". Economically I'm more conservative - I'm pro free market, all for less government and fiscal conservatism, and anti-welfare. I am also in support of adequate funding for the military.
So you tell me, who should I vote for? I sure as heck don't know. I've tried very hard in the last 5 years or so to actually start paying attention to politics, and I at least know how I feel about things. But it doesn't seem to help me out much come election day.
I can't tell you who you should vote for (well I can, but... ;)
But if you're a fiscal conservative, there's only one way to go.
We the people need to start finding people with real integrity . I starting to care less about the issues and starting to care that they are honest and put the USA first, instead of their re-election status and wallet! My God, we have elected a bunch of criminals, IMO. Discuss among yourselves. SighQuote:
either speak her own opinion or learn to lie better
Here are my hierarchy of priorities for which criminal.. I mean candidate I'm going to vote for. I'm a conservative, so I'm looking for conservative views on the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Rocks
1) National Security. Without it, nothing else matters.
2) Economic policy / Tax policy / Fiscal policy
3) Supreme Court / Judicial Issues (IE - Uphold constitution and rights)
4) Position on social issues
Obama fails at all 4 of the above - so my choice is pretty simple even if McCain is questionable on 2 or 3 of them.
Me, I'm just looking for a candidate who will:
1) Not interfere with individual rights. I don't give a darn about what people do in their bedrooms, so I don't really have an axe to grind there. I just don't want them to care what I have in my gun cabinet either.
2) Not roll over to foreign aggressors or allow the U.N. to have any effect on U.S. policies.
3) Not tax the heck out of the productive classes in society to give handouts to the "less fortunate" -- who often also seem to be the "less intelligent" and/or "less motivated". I'm against any policy that attempts to instill "equality" at the price of hindering progress.
4) Get off his or her duff and start looking for an independent solution to our energy problems -- otherwise we're going to be squeezed between Venezuela, Russia and the oil ticks in Saudi Arabia soon. Funny how almost NO ONE we rely on for oil actually likes the U.S.
I'm a pretty hardcore libertarian on a lot of things ... in general, I just want LESS government all around. Unfortunately, I find myself in the position of choosing which individual rights matter to me, because most politicians seem to want to infringe on some of them.
How very bitter and rude of you. And how dare you assume I don't like Republicans. You have no idea what party i've voted for over the years. You must be so proud to be such a elitist.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly
Excluding a candidate on the basis of her accent. How very deep.
I know you find great enjoyment breaking my stones whenever possible, but my basis of her exclusion is more then just her accent. I'll try to come up with a good explanation and post it.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly
tough crowd in here :)
My vote will go to the 'no confidence' category. As an independent, non party affiliated, free thinker, I do have to vote for McCain / Palin on the lesser of two evils ticket. The alternative would affect me directly in a not so good way.
that being said, Ab made the rest of my argument, no need to drone. well.... except about stitch, he talks funny.
At least during these trying times there is something we all can agree on! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Choozoo
I'm Stitch Jones and I approve this message.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Bribo
I voted for StitchJones and all I got was my feet stuck behind my head.
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