Gas Prices?

Ok, so this is really become an annoyance.. going to fill up and having to pay $2.00 a gallon and upwards of 30 a tank has really gotten to me.

So heres what I have heard, correct me if I'm wrong.

Fact: Bush tried to fund a war and cut taxes, seemingly unsuccessful on both ends (the last part being my opinion).

Now, heres where I get hazy because I don't pay attention that much.. What I heard is that Bush signed a bill raising the taxes on gas by $.45, There is something going on in Venezula (which happens to effect the world oil supply), and the Bush Campaign is using the fact that Kerry signed on the bill for the Gas Tax as some major front against him.. when infact it was Bush that signed it into law, or some such thing like that..

Like I said, I don't pay attention to politics that much.. but gas prices are rediculous. I never have liked Bush, this is not making me like him more at all..

Correct me if I'm wrong, and don't hold my Anti-Gdub views against me.. :tongue:

Well, I think you're facts are wrong. At last the ones concerning the president. The president has very little to do with gas prices.

There are many reasons prices are high. Here are the major ones:

- Crude oil prices have stayed higher than expected, in part because it's taken longer to get Iraq back on line.
- In addition, about 300,000 to 400,000 barrels daily of Nigerian oil production are curtailed because of local political turmoil.
- At the same time, Venezuelan oil production has not returned to pre-strike levels.
- And on top of everything else, OPEC has cut back on quotas,

This according to John Felmy, chief economist at the American Petroleum Institute (API).

The president can make policy and negotiate to try to to influence OPEC but it is largely out of his hands on what they set the on price of crude.

There are more calls from Congress (here)to open up the nations strategic petroleum reserves to lower prices.

I for one think these reserves need to be guarded for dire circumstances only.

I don't think we are at that state now. Yes, the prices are high. Yes, people are grumbling. But they are still filling up and travelling just as much.

I thought this was appropriate for this thread.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com....n0517105a.jpg

Apparently, the New York Times agrees with me.

"President Bush is rightly resisting the call. Since 9/11, the administration has been adding to the reserve in a disciplined manner, and it is closing in on its goal of filling up the reserve's capacity, 700 million barrels. Tapping the reserve to assuage motorists at a time of increasing security threats to already tight fuel supplies would be foolish."

And on the causes:

"The real culprit behind rising energy costs is the roaring demand from growing economies, especially China's and the United States', though the volatile situation in the Middle East does seem to add a risk premium. Most of China's energy demand is for industrialization, which, in turn, contributes to the global economic recovery. In contrast, roughly half of the United States' petroleum demand is for personal consumption, primarily for cars, trucks and S.U.V.'s, a situation that, in turn, makes the nation ever more dependent on an increasingly endangered supply of foreign oil."

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Originally Posted by [AK]Slaughter

Fact: Bush tried to fund a war and cut taxes, seemingly unsuccessful on both ends (the last part being my opinion).

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"Bush tried to fund a war." Good! I'd prefer that the war effort be
funded.

"...and cut taxes." Good! Low taxes spur economic growth. We're in
a major boom right now.

As far as the 45cent thing - I think you're getting Bush confused with Kerry, who espoused a 50 cent tax (or was against cutting taxes by that amount, depending on which version you read.)

BTW - it cost me $47 to fill my tank yesterday, so suck it up you weenie. :beer:

My $.02 on Kerry's 50 cent "gas tax."

A Bush ad released March 30 attacked Kerry for once supporting the "wacky" idea of raising the gasoline tax by 50 cents per gallon. That was a decade ago. More recently, the man who later became Bush's own chief economist said higher gasoline taxes would lead to "less traffic congestion, safer roads, and reduced risk of global warming" and that raising gasoline taxes 50 cents to pay for a cut in income-tax rates "may be the closest thing to a free lunch that economics has to offer."

Kerry's support for a 50-cent-a-gallon increase in the gasoline tax happened a decade ago, back when regular was selling for a national average of $1.01 per gallon. Kerry's support was so fleeting that the only evidence of it to surface so far are two old newspaper clips in which Kerry complains that he deserved more credit as a deficit-cutter. He never voted for, or sponsored, legislation to impose such a tax, and he doesn't support one now.

Sonic - I read your opinion word for word in an article that I dredged up in a google search on the topic about 5 minutes before I posted. Dude! What are the odds!? ;)

My opinion - a 50 cent gas tax is a stupid idea - whether or not it's a new tax or a repeal of an older tax cut. It would cost jobs and drag our economy down.

Another opinion - both sides are playing politics with this issue, as expected.

Kerry's record is so wonderfully full of questionable votes, waffling stances and downright stupidity that I would be shocked if this is the last such attack we see from the Republicans.

UPDATE - Whether or not Kerry supports it now, there is little doubt that he'll be raising taxes promptly if elected. It's what he's all about.

Sincerely, Squidly (Who is still waiting for the cheap-iraqi-oil that the moonbats promised me.)

Hey, I never said I wasn't above plagiarism...

For once on this thread, I pretty much agree with everything you said, except for the part on Kerry's waffling votes. It's no accident that the last U.S. Senator to become President was Nixon. I'm convinced that it's easier to elect Governors because they have no national voting record.

The political distortions from both camps are only gonna get more ridiculous from here on out.

That other US Senators waffle doesn't excuse Kerry from waffling. It's tough to nail down what a candidate stands for if he's always changing his stance based on which way the political wind is blowing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [AK]Sonic Boom

For once on this thread, I pretty much agree with everything you said, except for the part on Kerry's waffling votes.

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That's WHEN he actually votes!

"An effort co-piloted by a Bay Area congressman to extend unemployment benefits for up to a few million people was rejected by the Senate on Tuesday for want of just one vote -- with Democratic presidential candidate U.S. Sen. John Kerry lone absentee , and most Republicans calling the measure un-needed."

Full story.

For the "working man", eh? </sarcasm>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly

BTW - it cost me $47 to fill my tank yesterday, so suck it up you weenie. :beer:

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Once again I would like to extend to you my personal thanks for purchasing petroleum and petroleum based products. That new video card is now closer than ever!

Also:
ANALYSIS-Not-so-fickle funds target $50 for surging oil

What I had heard was consistent with the NYT quote: China and India both want a lot more oil. It's simple supply and demand. Now let's go to Alaska and get some more supply.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [AK]Leonidas

What I had heard was consistent with the NYT quote: China and India both want a lot more oil. It's simple supply and demand. Now let's go to Alaska and get some more supply.

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Amen, brother.

Going to Alaska, I like that idea.. not only could we make a butt load off some oil there, but what about our newly aquired state: Iraq?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [AK]Bribo

I thought this was appropriate for this thread.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com....n0517105a.jpg

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Wheres that from? Christ, its only 2.00 a gallon for regular here.. (though I pay 2.10 cause I will ONLY put plus+ in my car).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [AK]Slaughter

Going to Alaska, I like that idea.. not only could we make a butt load off some oil there, but what about our newly aquired state: Iraq?

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It's their country, not ours - despite what the no-war-for-oil crowd has been chanting at you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [AK]Slaughter

Wheres that from? Christ, its only 2.00 a gallon for regular here.. (though I pay 2.10 cause I will ONLY put plus+ in my car).

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Slaughter in parts of CA it is over $3 a gallon right now for regular, NYS is talking about removing the state tax from gas for the summer which is a whopping 8 cents a gallon. I wonder what other taxes they will raise to compensate.

More on higher oil prices.

OPEC: "It's not us, dude!"

Dude: "Uhhh... yes, it is."

Just for the record, I stopped and filled up yesterday on the way home and I paid $1.92 per gallon in NJ. It's actually .05 cheaper in NJ than PA. I rarely even pay attention to gas prices but I just wanted to compare.

NJ gas prices are much lower compared to New York or Pennsylvania.

And they pump it for you. It's the law. No self serve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [AK]Bribo

And they pump it for you. It's the law. No self serve.

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Yep, working in NJ I generally take advantage of that law. ;) It's funny to see out of staters get out of their car and start to pump their own gas and then get told they can't by the attendants. LOL

NJ also has Delaware beat by a country mile. Jersey Turnpike gas is cheaper than Delaware Wawa gas. I'm going to wait and fill my tank on Sunday this week....

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Originally Posted by [AK]The Beast

Wawa gas.

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I use to get WaWa gas too.. but I stopped eating their breakfast sandwiches when I started my diet. ;)

I really get to post a reply and know what I am talking about.

Ok there are mitigating factors to WHY Gas is where it is. And it does not intrinsically depend on Crude Oil prices.

Here we go.

All though we import most of our oil offshore, it still needs to be refined. Now believe it or not there are only 4 to 5 refineries (mostly in the southwest) that strictly produce gasoline. These refineries do not produce any thing else, just Crude to Gasoline, which of course is not enough to satiate our thirsts for the all mighty auto.

Now what are all those other refineries producing around the country in the interim?

1) Fuel oil
2) Fuel oil
3) Home heating oils
4) Lubricating oils
5) Other crude based petroleum products

Here is where the situation gets sticky. Some of these plants that produce home heating oil, do double duty, so in the winter they produce home heating oil only, then come spring they then switch over to the production of gasoline; now this "Switch over" takes up to two to three weeks. So they normally start in mid April to assist the refineries that only produce gasoline. But there is a big if to that mantra.

COLD ASS WINTERS.

If the east has a very cold winter, then the refineries that have the capabilities to produce oil and gas, well, keep producing home heating oil only and they do not desist until the cold snap has ended. Hence they may not come on line until late May at the earliest. So while the east is still cold, the west in spring, or at least milder temperatures which get people out buying more gas.

Ok flip side. What happens if it is a mild winter across the country?

Bingo.

The powers that be STILL keep production at the level of, home heating and fuel oils first and gasoline second.

Now kids what does that do in a free market economy? It drives the prices up of course because there is not enough of supply to meet demand. This is why every spring gas goes up, and not down. Now do you think that the major oil refiners are going to build more dedicated Crude to Gas plants?

HELL NO?

Would you if you were a CEO of a Mobile or BP? Gas is like water and we as the public will PAY FOR IT? Why invest billions on infrastructure for a commodity that you know people will and have to pay for.

It only gets worse when the price of crude in conjunction of refining priorities is both in the stratosphere, hence where we are now. So it really boils down to the producers monopolizing on the fact that they know no matter what price we WILL pay for the gas, and also that they need not add to their refining infrastructure, because hell, if they made gas more plentiful and kept prices low, their profits would be off a few billion for the year, and the Fed releasing the National petroleum reserves, BS, that is just hype. It comes down to the refining process mostly, not crude oil prices; it is the exchanging one smoke screen for another.

That is the straight dope.

Reno, Nevada. Average price at the pump right now = $2.30

Side story
I was planning on taking a road trip to LA for Memorial Day and got to checking budget for driving. Guess what! It’s now cheaper to FLY than to drive!!! Is that not crazy or what!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [AK?]FiGHT*CLuB

Reno, Nevada. Average price at the pump right now = $2.30

Side story
I was planning on taking a road trip to LA for Memorial Day and got to checking budget for driving. Guess what! It’s now cheaper to FLY than to drive!!! Is that not crazy or what!

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Have you not listned to what I have said?

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Originally Posted by [AK?]GovermentCheese

Have you not listned to what I have said?

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No I have not listened to what you have said.

Have fun baby!

Over 2 bucks a gallon? I'm paying $0.93!!...a Liter that is :) That’s a lot if you factor in my city is largely industrial, we have an Esso AND a Shell oil refinery just on the outskirts of town. Along with many other chemical plants grouped together.
Its kind of retarded when you drive by theses places and see MASSIVE vats of crude oil just sitting there waiting to be refined. Then find out the next city 1 hour away is paying less per liter then you are!

Right now its roughly 40 bucks CDN for me to fill up…a lot more then it used to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [AK?]GovermentCheese

. Now do you think that the major oil refiners are going to build more dedicated Crude to Gas plants?

HELL NO?

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I believe that the oil companies desperately want to build new refineries. For example in California, they've tried for years to expand and grow but the strict environmental laws prohibit the addition of new or the expansion of existing refineries.

For examples a new LNG refinery needs to be built for the west coast. Why even try to build it in the U.S. if you're going to spend decades attempting to appease the environmentalists? Billions of dollars to study the impact of the refinery on a field mouse? No. You simply build the plant in Mexico. Specifically Baja, Mexico.

So it's not that the oil companies don't want to increase production, they are simply prevented in doing so by the very people that demand more access and lower prices to their product. The voter.

Good point, I just wonder how all of this really pans out on the back end. By that I mean when goverment and big business gets togeather and asks the question

"How much are you willing to scratch my back to get what it is that you really want"?