The Manifesto!

So in the spirit of politics – here is todays manifesto on political hot topics:

EPA: Good idea – keep it. At one time, rivers really did catch on fire. They have their place. Maybe tone it down some – the world can survive w/out the snail darter.

Additional drilling for oil: Stop, stop it now. This is our long term national reserve. We’ll tap it plenty good when people can no longer fly to Earth Day parades.

Subsidies: They have their place – the government can kick-start some good ideas or prop up some important industries through troubled times. No subsidy program should ever last more than a few years. $300 Billion a year in farm subsidies is crazy. Why are we doing this? I think capitalism is a pretty good idea – let’s try it.

High incarceration rate: The US is sometimes bemoaned for the largest prison system in the world. I think this is a good thing – keep the trash out of the way helps the rest of us get on with getting on.

War on Drugs: So I hear - marijuana is not a dangerous drug, nor is it all that addictive. IMHO it should be regulated on the same level as tobacco. We saw this before in the 20’s – why is this so hard? (and no, I’ve never smoked weed or any other illicit drug, nor do I want to). There’s a LOT of intelligent freedom minded folks who feel this way – why is this a political death sentence? Harder stuff tends to wreck a person quickly, and keeping it more restricted makes sense.

Tax the rich – feed the poor: All for it – visit some 3rd world Mecca where they don’t do this and you’ll see Hell on Earth. I’ll pay my part happily, since in the end I actually do give a small crap about my fellow man. And yes, my total income is higher for it (no electric fences, society functions so can have a job, didn’t get robbed last night, wasn’t shot for food). My definition of basic minimum doesn’t include 50” plasma screen cable TV.

Taxes: I was raised and taught to pay my bills. Damn shame some fools in government ran up incredible bills for the last 10 years that now somebody is going to have to pay. I don’t blame the next guy for raising my taxes. I might blame him for his definition of “fair” and just how much he plans on squandering what we’re already paying.

Gun control: All for it – I don’t want irresponsible folks having weapons of any kind. Good thing that’s what we have on the books already. More just seems like hand wringing – to what end?

War in Iraq: Wups. The good news is, we’ve essentially won. Nobody talks about that anymore, but from what I hear, the War in Iraq is basically over. Afghanistan is heating up a bit – let’s hope that one doesn’t get ugly. At least there’s not the added sting of “wups” to Afghanistan – IMHO we really needed to go there.

Vote: IMHO, should be harder. Perhaps a tax receipt requirement or registration for Jury duty. Make a constitutionally consistent hoop and I'll jump through it.

Pie: Like it.

EPA: Needed as long as the enviro-whackos don't take over.

Additional drilling for oil: Need it. We need to use all the domestic natural resources we can. That includes oil, coal, natural gas, nuclear, solar, wind, geo-thermal. It's not a multiple choice. It's an "all of the above".

Subsidies: Don't need them. Free market rules. Paying someone to NOT produce something is just plain crazy.

High incarceration rate: Need more chain gangs. There is too much trash along the highways and the streets in this nation. We have a readily available work force to take care of this problem. Get to work.

War on Drugs: Decriminalize marijuana. In New York, get rid of the Rockefeller Drug laws.

Tax the rich – feed the poor: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats every day. I'm against progressive taxes. They are contrary to human nature. The wealthy already pay more taxes for the fact that their income is higher. Question: Why are there obese poor people in this country? Does that even make sense?

Taxes: Scrap the income tax system entirely. It's full of loop holes anyhow and way too complicated. Go to a national sales tax. No loop holes. You buy something you pay a tax whether it's you buying a new car or a company buying some machinery. Everyone pays. People who buy more obviously pay more in taxes. Fair system.

Gun control: I'm for background checks to ensure felons and the mentally impaired don't get their hands on guns, but I'm not for any kind of banning of handguns or any other kind of semi-automatic rifles.

War in Iraq: Bad execution of a good idea. I blame Rumsfeld. We won the war but have taken way too long to win the peace.

Vote: I think it's hard enough. The problem is that most citizens don't vote at all or even bother to pay attention. I blame the Electoral College system. This system saps the meaning of your individual vote. Case in point, I usually vote Conservative but in NYS which normally goes Democrat my vote counts for nothing as the winner of the state get ALL THE ELECTORAL VOTES. We need to either go to a proportional electoral vote system based on popular vote percentages or scrap the Electoral College altogether and go with a straight popular vote.

Pie: Agree, wholeheartedly.

EPA: Needed. Don't think about it much.

Additional drilling for oil: Needed now, along with Nukes and heavy research into clean coal. Privatize the other stuff.

Subsidies: Against them, but like social security, it's probably career suicide for a Republican to propose doing away with them.

High incarceration rate: Agree with Bribo. Put them to work.

War on Drugs: Decriminalize Pot. Legalize and regulate prostitution a la Nevada.

Tax the rich: Flat tax everyone. Sales tax has some merit.

Gun control: Background checks are fine.

War in Iraq: "Bad execution of a good idea." I agree with Bribo to a degree. Never thought that Iraq was behind 9/11, but thought that a democratic, friendly nation in the heart of the middle east was worth fighting and paying the cost for. Really, really bad of PR throughout, did nothing to counter the daily drip of bad news from the main stream media.

Vote: Examine the electoral college system. Not sure it's valid any longer.

Pie: For it, in most cases.

EPA: Good idea – Bad implementation. Too many 'tree huggers' involved in the agency.

Additional drilling for oil: Drill Baby, Drill. More supply equates to lower prices. But my primary goal is to diminish the amount of foreign oil we purchase. I'd like to see us "bury" the Middle Eastern Countries and Chavez by not having to purchase any of their oil. Their "regimes" collapse along with their cash flow. I believe in Nuclear, Solar, Clean Coal, and Hydrogen/Natural Gas and electric vehicles with improved battery performance. I'm not a fan of wind energy.

Subsidies: Must be kept to a minimum pending the industry.

High incarceration rate: I'm fine with it - but I also believe we must do everything possible to make sure people are guilty via DNA or any other new method that is proven to be valid. Particularly so with cases that result in the death penalty. I also believe in chain-gangs. See Cool Hand Luke. ;)

War on Drugs: I honestly don't think drugs could bring the collective intelligence of the American Public much lower than our educational system and media already has.

Tax the rich – feed the poor: A bunch of BS. You can't legislate charity and good-will.

Taxes: "The Rich" already pay more than their fair share. I don't have a problem with our regressive taxation system - it's the wasteful government spending that is dooming our countries fiscal position, not a lack of tax dollars. I'd need more evidence of how the national sales tax system would work before I could support it.

Gun control: Background checks only. All for keeping guns out of the hands of convicted felons and mentally unstable individuals. Oh, and wives of men who have substantial life insurance policies. :beer:

War in Iraq: Bad execution of actual war plan, even worse execution of public relations and information.

Vote: Should be stricter controls on voter registration. I think a proportional electoral college system for each state is needed.

Pie: I like it, but I prefer cake - when it's not a lie.

I have been slammed at work today and haven't had a chance to do a complete response, but just a few quick things that I couldn't resist...

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Originally Posted by [AK]Hylander

Taxes: "The Rich" already pay more than their fair share.

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I hear this a lot. It makes me curious - does a person's stance on this issue correspond with their own income status? My gut reaction has always been, "Well sure the rich should pay more taxes, they can afford it", but maybe that's because I'm the only non-rich person here and just don't realize it. I'd be curious to know what the average income bracket is of those who support/oppose this stance.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Hylander

All for keeping guns out of the hands of convicted felons and mentally unstable individuals. Oh, and wives of men who have substantial life insurance policies. :beer:

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Let me preface this by saying that I don't know anything about gun ownership, having a rather large distaste for guns in general. But I wonder, why not have to have a licensing program to own and carry a gun, just like a driver's license? To legally drive a car, I have to take a test proving that I can indeed operate a car, I have to be a certain age, I can't have too many car-related convictions, I have to follow strict laws while driving the car, and I have to have insurance to protect other people in case I hurt them with my car. To buy a gun, I just have to show up at Academy Sports with an ID and money. That just doesn't make sense to me. I am no more against people having guns that I am people driving cars, but it seems to me that stricter regulations on buying/owning/carrying guns would be a good thing.

Oh, and Kidd, did you take out a big life insurance policy on me? Is that why we have all the guns in the house? :tongue:

For Tax Year 2006

Percentiles Ranked by AGI - AGI Threshold on Percentiles -Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

Top 1% - $388,806 - 39.89%

Top 5% - $153,542 - 60.14%

Top 10% - $108,904 - 70.79%

Top 25% - $64,702 - 86.27%

Top 50% - $31,987 - 97.01%

Bottom 50% - <$31,987 - 2.99%

Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income
Source: Internal Revenue Service

So - to interpret this, the botton 50% of all tax payers pay less than 3% of all taxes paid. The top 1% of all tax payers, pays almost 40% of ALL taxes. The top 5% pays 60%, and the top 10% of all tax payers pay 71% of all taxes paid. So how much higher should the top 10% tax payers be paying??

And for the record - I am NOT in the top 10%. My wife and I are still in the 25% tax bracket. I aspire to be in the top 10%, and if/when I get there - I don't want to be punished for my hard work and success. That's not the America I was taught that we lived in.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Swae

I hear this a lot. It makes me curious - does a person's stance on this issue correspond with their own income status? My gut reaction has always been, "Well sure the rich should pay more taxes, they can afford it", but maybe that's because I'm the only non-rich person here and just don't realize it. I'd be curious to know what the average income bracket is of those who support/oppose this stance.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by [AK]Swae

I hear this a lot. It makes me curious - does a person's stance on this issue correspond with their own income status? My gut reaction has always been, "Well sure the rich should pay more taxes, they can afford it", but maybe that's because I'm the only non-rich person here and just don't realize it. I'd be curious to know what the average income bracket is of those who support/oppose this stance.

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We're top 10% (using Hylander's rough grid, above.) Does that make us rich?

My wife and I live with our daughter in one of the most steeply taxed states in the US. We've worked hard to get where we are, starting out living on 1 entry level income in a 1 bedroom apartment with no air (couldn't afford it.) We drove wretched cars (mine had no radio, no air, and the seats wouldn't recline, my wife's leaked oil and caught on fire once as it idled.) We paid 10-15 years of college loans. But had a plan. We waited on kids. We went to school. We got good jobs and worked hard in them. Doing well, we were rewarded. We've been at it for over 20 years. So for our efforts, we qualify for a bracket where half of our income is stripped away by federal, state, and property taxes and social security.

Inevitably when people talk about why they don't have money, it's because of decisions they've made. They ran up credit cards. They had kids too early. They dropped out of school. They quit jobs or were fired for reasons that were well within their control.

There are always jobs. There is always opportunity, provided you don't self limit yourself to an area or an occupation.

The government needs to stay the hell out of our lives. You don't tax a nation into prosperity, and you don't raise people out of poverty by gifting them checks from those who earned them.

You do earn votes from the fickle, which is why Democrats have been playing the class warfare card for decades.

Where has personal responsibility gone?

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Originally Posted by [AK]Swae

Let me preface this by saying that I don't know anything about gun ownership, having a rather large distaste for guns in general. But I wonder, why not have to have a licensing program to own and carry a gun, just like a driver's license?

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Regulation is the slippery slope to restriction. Gun ownership is a right. When we cede our rights to the government, we risk losing them.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Swae

Let me reface this by saying that I don't know anything about gun ownership, having a rather large distaste for guns in general. But I wonder, why not have to have a licensing program to own and carry a gun, just like a driver's license? To legally drive a car, I have to take a test proving that I can indeed operate a car, I have to be a certain age, I can't have too many car-related convictions, I have to follow strict laws while driving the car, and I have to have insurance to protect other people in case I hurt them with my car. To buy a gun, I just have to show up at Academy Sports with an ID and money. That just doesn't make sense to me. I am no more against people having guns that I am people driving cars, but it seems to me that stricter regulations on buying/owning/carrying guns would be a good thing.

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please take the time to recognize this is a Right, given to us by the Constitution. It's guaranteed under the Bill of Rights. Driving a car is not.


Please forgive me, but Wikipedia seems to be the best media for liberals to understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...s_Constitution

EPA: All for it, as long as it is realized that there is a tradeoff involved. We should never shutter our plants if it cripples our economy vs. any of the third-world, pollute all you want nightmares like China.

Additional drilling for oil: Drill, but work to get alternative energy sources up and running as soon as possible. I too would like to see OPEC and all the other cavemen sitting on oil-based economies implode.

Subsidies: Needed occasionally. Like now -- I'd like to see more subsidies for large alternative energy and nuclear projects. I think they have a good chance of getting off the ground, but without guaranteed returns, few will take the risk.

High incarceration rate: Minimize it by maximizing the death penalty.

War on Drugs: A waste of my tax dollars and yours. Legalize and tax the hell out of most of it; flag users in a database and find them productive jobs as litter collectors and other endeavors far from responsibility.

Tax the rich – feed the poor: I'm for tax the rich and WORK the poor. If I'm going to pay taxes to give money to some indolent schmuck, I want them working his or her ass off at a hot and uncomfortable job for that money, so that ANYTHING is better than welfare. Want food stamps? That'll be 5 hours of litter pickup.

Taxes: Our current progressive tax system is silly. My wife and I are in the 25 percent bracket. I'd be more in favor of a flat 10 percent income tax with no loopholes. Make EVERYONE feel it anytime taxes go up to fund some liberal nonsense, including the intended beneficiaries.

Gun control: Background checks only. Use the existing laws. Any attempt to license these will create a federal database, which can be abused by an administration like Nobama's.

War in Iraq: It's just cleanup now. Odd how the media rarely trumpets that, like they did EVERY single death. Get our troops home as soon as possible and take the pressure off them for a while. Afghanistan could take a while.

Vote: Take a page from Heinlein and enact a mandatory term of government service before anyone can vote. No requirement to do the service; no way to vote without it. No one on the welfare dole should be able to vote until they are off it for a year. Realistically, I am in favor of keeping the electoral college. It's all that's keeping the urban liberal hordes from controlling the country completely. Without it, rural states don't stand a chance at having their voices heard and lifestyles preserved. All policy would come from New York and Los Angeles, and not from the good parts of the cities.

Illegal immigration: Hardline, just like they are doing now. Target employers and employees; prosecute to the full extent of the law -- because it IS the law. Confused as to what part of "illegal" so many find hard to understand. Latest tactic is to charge workers using stolen Social Security numbers with federal level identity theft -- I LIKE IT.

Pie: Like it, don't want the slice I earned cut up and redistributed to anyone else.

Thanks for the post Hy, I've never seen that info before. It's certainly something to think about.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Swae

But I wonder, why not have to have a licensing program to own and carry a gun, just like a driver's license? To legally drive a car, I have to take a test proving that I can indeed operate a car, I have to be a certain age, I can't have too many car-related convictions, I have to follow strict laws while driving the car, and I have to have insurance to protect other people in case I hurt them with my car.

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There is licensing program in place if one chooses to carry a gun in public, in their car, or anywhere other than their own home. You could buy a car and leave it in the driveway but not pay insurance or have a license right? Same with my guns. Now if I choose to go in public with my gun, just as if I choose to drive on public roads with my car, I have to be licensed. There are strict rules to abide by and a training coarse of sorts as well.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly

The government needs to stay the hell out of our lives. You don't tax a nation into prosperity, and you don't raise people out of poverty by gifting them checks from those who earned them.

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Don't you realize you're just being selfish?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...-new-atta.html

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Originally Posted by [AK]Bribo

Don't you realize you're just being selfish?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...-new-atta.html

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They can comfort themselves with my proposal for legalized pot and prostitution.

See, I do care...

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Originally Posted by [AK]Kidd

please take the time to recognize this is a Right, given to us by the Constitution. It's guaranteed under the Bill of Rights. Driving a car is not.

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The right to bear arms and protect one's life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness is not given to us by the Constitution.

It's given to us by God and recognized in the Constitution. For me, a more important distinction.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Sonic Boom

The right to bear arms and protect one's life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness is not given to us by the Constitution.

It's given to us by God and recognized in the Constitution. For me, a more important distinction.

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I assume you mean god (little G.)

No, I meant the big G, since in this case I'm using it as a proper name.

So the aborting, evolution God. Gotcha. :)

The Obama worker manifesto. ;)

EPA: Like many here I am for the EPA and believe they are necessary. I am less sure about the endangered species act.
Drilling for oil: I am actually pretty neutral about it. I would like to see less subsidies for oil and more focus on alternative fuels. I am more opposed to mountaintop removal for coal because I think it exploits an economically impoverished population. I do think that alternatives should be actively explored not "to save the planet" so much as "to have a system in place when the inevitable shortages occur". I could care less about "sticking it to another country".
Subsidies:This is way too broad a category. For instance I am definitely for the NIH and the NCI. If I or my family had serious medical problems then you bet I would be trying to get care from Bethesda! or one of the NCI or NIH funded centers of excellence. Without subsidies from the US many highly innovative ideas would not exist. There would be no space program, no nuclear power, probably no internet....However, do I see a large need for us to subsidize corn production for fuel and feed (nope).
High incarceration rate: My personal belief is that actions have consequences and that incarceration should serve two purposes. 1) It should not be an entirely comfortable life. 2) Job and lifestyle training, heck as these people are taken from society give them real training in how to hold a job and how to function in society. MUCH of the high incarceration rate has to do with the drug addiction so certainly offer drug rehabilitation programs. As for the death penalty, there are truly evil individuals who exist who should in no way be able to participate in society again. Could I personally be the one to inject even the most vile person with the fluid that stopped their heart? (I don't think so, and I find it difficult to ask another individual to do something that would tear me up morally and emotionally inside.)
War on Drugs: Legalize most illegal substances BUT require mandatory drug tests for job performance and allow employers to discriminate based on drug usage. This is already done with alcohol (pilots take breathalyzer tests etc...).
Tax the Rich- feed the poor: I am unaware of a first world country that does not have some form of a welfare system. I leave it to my conservative colleagues to find a few for me so that I can judge how charity alone works. Do I wish to make welfare a comfortable lifestyle? NOPE make it uncomfortable to be there. Make people work, and make retraining programs available for those who want to get out of "the system". I don't advocate the welfare system because I have a big heart. I advocate a system for the same reason the Romans did it, to pacify the population and increase personal security.
Taxes: I don't feel the current tax rate is onerous, I didn't feel the tax rate before the tax cuts was onerous. I would not be opposed to paying more taxes. I REALIZE I AM FUNNY ABOUT MONEY!!! I simply don't care that much about it (Drives Clay bonkers!). My current standard of living is extraordinary I don't aspire to a better one, I could be perfectly happy with a slightly decreased standard. I do despise waste, and would like better accountability for the money I spend on infrastructure, welfare, medicare and medicaid, etc.... So by all means advocate thrift and accountability but higher taxes are more of just a shrug to me.
In the interest of full disclosure :Household income is in the top 10% according to Highlanders chart thingie.
Gun control: I would like to see more done to stop gun related crimes without inhibiting a citizen's right to own a firearm. I don't think these are two diametrically opposed goals.
War in Iraq: In order to obtain security in Iraq we essentially instituted a welfare/workfare system where we began paying Iraqi citizens to not shoot at us. This irks me, I understand the welfare system and it's necessity internally, but am much less gung ho exporting this to a country with large sources of internal revenue. I personally think there was no reason to begin the war other than a petty man's personal vindictive. I TOTALLY support the war in Afghanistan, it is necessary it is important and we DO need to pay for infrastructure and education in that country for our national security interests.
Vote:I take a bizarre view of this. I believe that any individual that is over 18 has not only the right but the duty to vote and should not be allowed to shirk this duty. I think not voting should be heavily fined, I believe some industrialized countries do this now (haven't done the research though so I could have old data).
Illegal Immigration: Shrug, this issue doesn't keep me up at night. Immigration in general, I am for making it easy for qualified individuals to get citizenship. For border countries I am for granting many more worker status in the form of a visa or card of some sort to people. Then totally crack down on the BUSINESSES and INDIVIDUALS that hire people who are undocumented. People come because there are opportunities for undocumented work make the industry clean up it's act and the workers won't come. To me the answer isn't more fences it is taking away the revenue stream.
Affirmative Action/ Racism etc..: I am more ambivalent of this, like Swae, racism and sexism certainly exist. I was told on more than one occasion in college not to take the hard science classes, to take classes for teachers etc..... I KNOW that I was paid less in my first job than a boy who was hired to do a less skilled job (I KNOW because I did the payroll!) Now I didn't listen to the teachers and I certainly didn't stay at my first job. But I still often use my initials at work so that people don't know right away that I am female. I have witnessed Chinese scientists Americanize their name so that they would be considered for a grant. (Same science just denied for funding if the name sounded Chinese). I am a big proponent of EQUAL OPPORTUNITY how to legislate that I am less sure of.

I tend to be more liberal with social issues. Personally my marriage was a covenant between my God (yup Squid with a capital G) my spouse and me. The government had no part of it. If I were in charge I would take away ALL stipulations on what marriage between adults (yup this would mean polygamists too). I don't think government has a place in my marriage period, for tax and children purposes maybe some sort of legal contract. Maybe not a workable solution yet but this is how I feel.
Abortion rights, I believe this is a terrible and personal and private decision made even worse because of the rampant politicization. To be honest I am not exactly pro choice (I believe in limits). I believe that every male that has had sex with a female without first proposing and getting an acceptance for that offer places a female in a potentially untenable situation. I believe that the time for considering termination for the most part is in the first trimester, later term abortions would have to have special extenuating circumstances. I don't believe life begins at conception, for me the line starts somewhere around 5 or 6 months post conception.
Evolution: I think of this like physics it has nothing to do with my religious beliefs it is a scientific belief. (It doesn't effect my faith in God to believe that he used an ordered set of events like the big bang and evolution to create. Nor do I believe that the Big Bang or Evolution can in any way prove or disprove the existence of God. In my opinion, proof of existence would negate faith and mandate belief taking away man's free will.)
Pie: I love making pies and sending pieces to my friends! In fact it's pie making time again so look for some in a mailbox near you soon!

I realize my beliefs are not in line with most on these forums and I do so enjoy discussing ideas. (One of my favorite in WoW activities was picking a topic and chewing it over with Palooka because we were so often on opposite sides of the fence). We had great conversations and I treasure those.

That is all.

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Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly

So the aborting, evolution God. Gotcha. :)

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Gotcha, my ass. :-)

Without getting into a theological or philosophical (or grammatical) discussion here, why don't we continue to agree that human rights are inalienable and are merely recognized by some very wise men who ultimately came to a consensus addendum, without which our Constitution could never have been ratified?

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Originally Posted by [AK]Sonic Boom

Gotcha, my ass. :-)

Without getting into a theological or philosophical (or grammatical) discussion here, why don't we continue to agree that human rights are inalienable and are merely recognized by some very wise men who ultimately came to a consensus addendum, without which our Constitution could never have been ratified?

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I meant "gotcha" in the "I understand" way, not in the "I win" way.

Those wise men believed in God (big G) and not the changeable to suit whatever passing feel-good fancy floats the liberal boat - god. Most liberals I know are proud atheists, either in word or by action (despite their words.) Think Bill Maher if you need a poster-boy. Although I think he's a talentless hack, he is at least intellectually honest with himself.

The country was founded on Judeo-Christian sensibilities, which are now under assault, despite the lip-service and rationalization. We've got a candidate who paints himself as a God-fearing Christian supporting postpartum abortion.

But that's fine. I can deal with the hypocrisy. There's enough of that to go around on both sides. We can agree to your premise on rights, whatever their source.