Please explain why the dangers of the PATRIOT Act that I and others "whine about" are non-existant.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly
Printable View
Please explain why the dangers of the PATRIOT Act that I and others "whine about" are non-existant.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly
Please offer examples of abuse of the Patriot act. Heck, give me some examples where it has even been applied. Or is this just a philosophical disagreement?
It's another non-issue made an issue only because of who happens to be in office now. The Patriot act was being batted around long before Bush hit office - and it wasn't a Republican who first championed it.
(And your sig is inaccurate.)
Please explain where my sig is inaccurate.
Furthermore, my point stands whether or not documented abuses have occurred. Because of the secrecy provisions of the PATRIOT Act, we may never know if abuses have occurred or not, you may just simply disappear one day.
BTW, this is not a "philosophical disagreement." To me it is deadly practical.
The phrase in question is: American citizens can "be abducted from their homes and imprisoned for their entire lives, without cause or burden of proof or notification to anyone, and without representation or trial..."
The Patriot act DOES NOT allow that.
To which I assume you'll say "What about Jose Padilla?!?"
That case does not involve the Patriot act, but rather precident from a Superme court decision in 1942 regarding labeling certain US citizens as enemy combatants. This is still up for debate in the today's courts, but he has been allowed to see a lawyer.
Anyway, Kerry voted FOR the Patriot act, authored parts of it, and is in favor of actually strengthening others... So...uh...I guess we better get used to it no matter what happens in November.
- And to wrap up - in absence of any real examples of abuse I declare victory in this debate. Vague sneaking worries about black helicopters don't carry much weight for me. It's all very X-files.
I suppose that's a fundamental (and ironic) difference between you and I, patronizing remarks about black helicopters not withstanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by [AK]Squidly
You seem to trust the government with their newfound powers, whereas I don't trust them and don't believe anything they say at face value, regardless of party affiliation.
I flat-out don't trust anyone with my liberty and I find it comical that the Republican hallmark is to distrust government power while stereotyping Democrats as "Big Brother knows best."
The Republicans are scaring the hell out of me and my freedom like no Democrat ever has. Their fearmongering is working remarkably well.
Careful Sonic.. that post has the mark of the devil on it.
http://ren.shockwave-inc.com/sonic666.png
My point is that with even a little research it becomes rather evident that there's nothing in the Patriot Act to be afraid of unless you're a criminal. There are no good reasons to be against any of it unless you're doing something illegal.
The black helicopter crack was directed not at you but rather at this vague, unsubstantiated, unfocused fear that many seem to have. I guess I just don't get it.
I DO understand right's fear of the left's version of big-government. It's been tried, it's been substantiated, and the effects on our country have been tragic.
Regarding "scary Republicans", the thing passed 98-1. The scariness was bipartisan.
And your sig is still wrong. :)
The portion of the Patriot Act in question here applies to foreign nationals, not US citizens, and US citizens cannot be held without charge/council/indefinitely at the whim of some random flunky.
I guess I'd better kick it up to 667 then... ;)
Read it here USA PATRIOT ACT
I am withdrawing all previous arguements in this thread on the basis that I was snot-hanging drunk and, having finally regained conciousness after passing out, am returning to my regularly scheduled signature line.
You love meat (but not fish)...a bizarro vegan indeed. :D
I would be a vegetarian myself if not for the fact that I love the feeling of my teeth ripping through animal flesh. Nothing finer. :devil:
Maybe the Title should read: "Sonic's Drinking is Hella Scary" :)